One decade later, GNOME still sucks

It has been more than a decade of GNOME 3’s initial release and GNOME still sucks. Two of my most popular posts have been about GNOME 3 (#3 and #5), and in 2023 people still keep referencing them. GNOME 3 is still discussed today as a major blunder, similar to what happened with New Coke, and the complaints still remain as valid as before.

In 2007 GNOME was the undisputed king of the Linux desktop, with 60% of installations having GNOME (according to Debian statistics), since then GNOME has continued to decline, and other desktop environments like KDE continued to increase. It is safe to say GNOME will never be as popular as it once was, and it has only GNOME to blame.

gnome-session vs. kde-plasma-desktop,kwin,xfce4,mate-desktop,lxde,cinnamon

The mistakes made launching GNOME 3 are numerous, but they can all be summarized in one: the complete and utter disregard of the needs of their users. It seems pretty clear GNOME developers do not understand what the purpose of GNOME even is–or the purpose of all software for that matter: to be useful to the users.

No project is more important than the users of the project.

Linus Torvalds

GNOME developers have always had a disdain for their geek users, and have always desired more normie users, like Apple has. That’s why GNOME shell has always been a macOS copycat. The GNOME project even had the delusional objective of gaining 10% of the global desktop market share by by 2010: 10×10.

In the pursuit of this delusional goal of attracting more normie users, they threw under the bus their existing geek users. Superficially the goal made sense, since there’s many more normie users, but unfortunately for GNOME: normie users don’t care about Linux.

By the time GNOME developers could realize their mistake, it was too late: several forks of GNOME had been already been created, and other GNOME-like environments were created, the users who left were never going to come back: the trust had been broken. Not that it would matter, because GNOME developers never accept their mistakes.

This is why you don’t stab your users in the back.

New nonsense

If I tried to list the number of mistakes, this post would become a book, but I want to explore one at dept: the alt-tab behavior nonsense.

The GNOME project listed a bunch of references to justify their redesign, but it’s clear that they didn’t even read them. One related to workspaces was titled: Rooms: the use of multiple virtual workspaces to reduce space contention in a window-based graphical user interface. If the title doesn’t give the purpose away, here’s a sentence in the abstract:

Rooms is a window manager that overcomes small screen size by exploiting the statistics of window access, dividing the user’s workspace into a suite of virtual workspaces with transitions among them.

The purpose of workspaces is to divide windows, this should be obvious, but if it wasn’t obvious, this paper explained the reasons why in detail.

GNOME developers did the opposite of what their own reference suggested: they made alt-tab cycle through all the windows without any separation.

Not only did the new behavior go against their own references, it was different from macOS’s behavior, Windows’ behavior, every other Linux window manager, GNOME 2, but more importantly… common sense.

If they just made a mistake it would be understandable, they could just fix it, but they refused to accept it was a mistake. I debated this point with GNOME developers, and they all denied it was a problem.

alt-tab: works like OSX and Windows, I’m sorry. you’d probably need to check out other operating systems before making sweeping statements.

Emmanuele Bassi

I explained to Emmanuele that this just wasn’t true (works different in Windows and macOS), did he bother to reply back? Of course not.

This is ultimately the problem with GNOME: the attitude of developers. It is extremely trivial to fix these software issues, I could have easily written a patch to fix their buggy code, but I cannot write a patch to fix brains. Not even Linus Torvalds could get through their thick skulls, his perfectly valid patches were dismissed without any rational thought.

Here’s another lovely example from a gnome-terminal bug:

No.

Christian Persch

Does this look like GNOME developers care about their users? In fact, when I argued that users should be allowed to vote in bugzilla, I got permanently banned with no explanation. When tried to present my case they told me they weren’t interested in hearing it. GNOME has in fact an abusive relationship with their users.

It wasn’t until August of 2020 that one developer merged a patch that just made it work correctly: Cycle only through windows of a workspace when using “Switch windows of an app directly” keyboard shortcut (cycle-group).

So nine years later it now finally works correctly, but why couldn’t they just listen to me back in 2011? Because they are proud idiots who couldn’t accept they were wrong. That’s the sad truth.

Lazy

The excuses they gave as to why they wouldn’t implement something were endless, but the main one was: too much work.

This excuse never made any sense to me. The only way to get more developers is to get more users: obviously nobody is going to program on something they don’t use. And the only way to reliably get more users is to add features, and in order to not lose users, features shouldn’t be removed. It’s not rocket science.

It takes work to add new features without removing or affecting existing ones, sure, but that work is worth it so your existing users don’t get negatively affected.

Linus Torvalds explained how this can be done, and how this is done in Linux to Lennart Poettering (who has a GNOME-like mentality of screwing your users). Of course as is typical Lennart did not want to understand.

Weirdly enough in this very talk Alan Cox used GNOME 3 as an example of what not to do:

If you want to understand the importance of not suddenly changing your users’ experience, I would go and take a look at GNOME 3.0.

Irrespective of whether it’s a good user interface design or not, it’s a demonstration of why you don’t suddenly change everything on people who rely on what you were doing.

Alan Cox

It didn’t matter in how many ways Torvalds and Cox explained how it’s possible to add new features without destroying your users’ expectations, Lennart just didn’t want to understand.

Because the Linux project is willing to do the extra work to keep their users happy and productive, they continuously gain more and more users, and therefore more developers, with zero forks. GNOME on the other hand lost their existing users because it was “too hard” to keep them happy and productive, and as a result now they have less developers.

Gnomesplaining

As big as these issues were, they don’t come close to the biggest blunder: pretending they knew better than their users.

Any time any user presented a problem with GNOME 3, developers just dismissed the complaints explaining that users don’t actually know what they want. In typical cargo cult fashion, GNOME developers believed they could follow Apple success and divinate what their users truly desired.

It’s true that users probably couldn’t tell you that they wanted an iPhone, or a new kind of tomato sauce (as explained by Malcolm Gladwell), but GNOME developers’ mistake was the failure to consider that users are perfectly capable of telling you what they don’t like.

The automatic response to most complaints was “people don’t like new things”. Sure, that’s true for some people, but all of them? It’s a hasty generalization fallacy to think that if some users don’t like a specific feature because they don’t like new things, that all users do the same for all features.

It’s just obtuse and uninformed venting which I won’t dignify with a comment.

Emmanuele Bassi

Bruh. GNOME developers always know better than you.

Actually, ten years later it turns out that new generations also don’t like GNOME, so their fallacy was actually a fallacy. Some people did not like GNOME 3 for valid reasons, namely: it sucks.

Systemic dismissivism

When I complain about GNOME, one common retort is that not all developers are like what I describe. Some are truly hard working and care about the users. Sure, some are like that, but so what?

When discussing about a broken institution, it doesn’t really matter how many personal exceptions you can find, the institution itself is still broken. I’m sure there are some good Mexican politicians, but in general the system is still corrupt. It’s a similar argument with USA cops: not all of them are bad, but enough are in order to cause concern (or so they say).

Studies show that even if only 10% of a population believes something, if they do it fervently enough they can affect the whole population. By that metric even if only 10% of GNOME developers thought it’s OK to disregard the opinions of users, if they believe it strongly enough, or worse: if they are in the positions of power, that belief is still effective.

It doesn’t matter how many good GNOME developers you know, the system is still broken.

And I bet it’s more than 10%. Even if the group is not completely homogeneous, it’s still pretty homogeneous. The class “GNOME dev” has definite type, and I’m not that type, neither is Linus Torvalds, or Zed A. Shaw. That type does not include people who rock the boat or complain about the system, and it includes people who like to be in echo chambers.

Shame

It is a shame because GNOME 2 was amazing. If only GNOME developers were willing to do the necessary work to keep their existing users happy and productive, none of the forks would have been needed.

They could have kept GNOME 2 as a classic mode, and GNOME shell as a new alternative mode. But they decided to throw away their existing real user base in favor of a new hypothetical one, ignoring all their very real and valid complaints.

We all know how it went. GNOME lost the biggest Linux desktop market share ever achieved by any desktop, and they will never gain it back.

And for what? Just so developers could pat each other in the back.

GNOME could still turn this ship around, they could today decide that they are going to create the one desktop environment to rule them all, the one meant for all users, completely configurable and themeable. A truly inclusive endeavor.

I wouldn’t bet on that though.

35 thoughts on “One decade later, GNOME still sucks

  1. Once again your post on reddit has been taken down because readers there avidly dislike you personally, but they refuse to engage in the content of your argument. I have never seen such a storm of ad hominem attacks in all my years on reddit.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I’m used to ad hominem attacks instead of focusing the arguments. In this post I made at least six points: an obvious and drastic decrease in popularity, disdain for geek users, alt-tab was a mistake, to increase the number of developers work is needed, gnomesplaining, there are systemic issues. Yet on r/linux *not one* person tackled a single one of my arguments. They all focused on me.

    Supposedly it was a bot the one that removed the post, but I’ve contacted the mods multiple times and no one responded. It’s clear they are happy taking the side of the mob even though my post didn’t violate any of their rules.

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  3. I gave up myself. the gnome people won. this past year i’ve been seriously considering switching to windows after using linux for 16+ years. and I don’t even use gnome and haven’t since 2011, they’ve caused me constant headaches entirely through GTK alone.

    Liked by 1 person

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  7. That Alan Cox quote made me remember KDE 4 changed everything too. It looked as radical an overhaul as GNOME 3. I don’t use Linux often so I don’t know, I just saw both in school.

    Are there reasons that made the changes from KDE 3 to 4 all right? What did they do differently to manage not to alienate users?

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  8. I’m not familiar with the changes of KDE 4, but my understanding is that unlike GNOME developers, KDE developers did listen to their users and fixed as many issues as they could.

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  9. @jose a simple google for the image of default layout of KDE3 and 4, you may get the idea: they didn’t change much on operational logic, nor abandon their user base from locking the freedom of usage of their desktop.

    also, @slickdenis, you may try the so-called “forks” in this article. Like the cinnamon or elementary or just go with KDE.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. This article is a bit weird to me. It seems like you’re just trying to create drama for the sake of lighting shit on fire. It doesn’t get anything accomplished apart from creating discord. FOSS projects can be opinionated, that’s fine. They can also not cater to YOUR specific needs, other people with other needs exist too. And that’s what’s beautiful with FOSS, there’s something for everyone. If you don’t like it, don’t use it, end of the story! There’s no need to go around bashing a FOSS project because you don’t like the developers or the features it has. Like I said, this just creates discord in the community and bring absolutely NOTHING good. If anything, it just makes the FOSS community look bad as a whole and it prevents new people from adopting Linux in their lives.

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  11. Do you believe that it something glitters it must be gold? Or do you accept that just because this article *seems* to be doing something to you, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the case?

    What you are saying is an often repeated *lie* about the open source software community.

    It is *not* true that there’s something for everyone, and it’s *not* true that projects cater only for certain kinds of users.

    The most successful open source project of all doesn’t do that. In fact, Linux–the most successful software project in history–does cater *all* users.

    So what you are saying is a lie. There’s no different Linux for certain users, Linux is for *EVERYONE*.

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  12. it all makes sense when you realize microsoft (and many others corporations) hate open source.. but have ’embraced it’ .. to destroy it

    i think their dialogue about alt-tab makes no sense, it isn’t good for the user.. by design, on purpose

    they don’t want you to use it.

    they kicked off their user base and DON’T WANT THEM BACK

    and they want normal people to try linux and think it sucks because of it

    it all makes sense when you see it is intentional

    corporations are soulless, lifeless, dead entities that seek their own survival above all else.

    good people justify their actions because they are doing it for corporate interests, not ours and that is what our Declaration of Independence actual excluded corporations from forming. delaware broke that rule and allowed corporations to form.

    all this suffering because of that choice, i say.

    because I don’t think you can find any justification or motivation for these people to continue doing what they are doing

    their corporate sponsors are apparently happy with their work!

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  13. I don’t totally agree, at least where you are aiming your attack.
    Sure Gnome 3.0 (a total nightmare) and until 3.14 sucked hard, then with 3.16 to 3.18, it was good, like very good to the point I would only use 1 or 2 minor extensions. And contrary to what was told, it was a fully keyboard driven environment.

    Unfortunately, they went all crazy after that, as awkward as Windows UX ( ie: accessing network setting ) and a completely messed up gnome-control-center. The top-right menu is completely non-sense and some other things I forgot.

    I don’t use Gnome since end of 2017 nor any full fledged Desktop. I did try GS time to time with a Fedora live CD and it is always disappointing. FOSS desktop had an opportunity to lead the way.

    Finally, I don’t mind devs imposing stuff as long as it doesn’t break or make live worse.

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  14. This is what I warned about in 2010. Even if you liked 3.0 (or in your case 3.16), that’s only a temporary state, since they could break everything again in 4.0.

    The trust is lost, or it should have been lost to people who can put 2 and 2 together. It’s like marrying a cheater who left her husband for you, and not expect her to do the same to you. Not wise.

    If a project doesn’t respect its users, it’s only a matter of time before it screws them yet again.

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  16. Wow, I just found your site, and must say I agree completely with you in regards to Gnome. I tried it, hated it, used POP!_OS Cosmic for a bit before I settled on Cinnamon both in Mint and Fedora.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. I definitely agree with you. There are many things that I highly dislike in Gnome. However I am still using it because its imho more stable than other DEs.
    They won’t make nautilus bar clickable, so I can copy or edit current path. Because its not user friendly (what!?).
    In the new screenshot tool the screenshots suddenly saves screenshots to file without option to disable it. The old tool had this feature.
    Default options are just stupid. Without tweaking and extensions Gnome is just straight unusable for me.
    The problem is the altitude of devs towards users opinion. Without changing this Gnome will never be okay for normal end user. Even Valve would go for KDE in their Steam deck rather than for Gnome. ANd let me remind you that Gnome is supposed to be great for this type of devices…

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  18. Its not the Gnome sucks, it’s the mentality of it’s developers. Most epic crap I’ve ever seen : there is no way yo drag-drop files from an archive manager into nautilus (file manager) , the dev who implemented this is at least moron.

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  19. Dear Sir (@Felipec),

    I find the gist of the problems you mention with Gnome3 spot on to my experiences. I also want to mention that your venting, in my opinion, is a consequence of your ‘previous’ love, admiration and the frustration in your efforts to positively influence something that somebody is trying very hard to ruin, and succeeding.

    Here are a few of my thoughts:
    * I have ditched Gnome (the single biggest reason) for the simple fact that it is now the most distracting desktop environment I have ever worked with. There are huge screen transitions in places where you want to do very common and frequent things. These screen transitions are interesting for the first 2 minutes of using Gnome and thereafter is is just …
    * The Gnome apps lack critical configuration capabilities, while the environment uses as much or more resources than other comparable Linux environments which (the others) not only offers better customization; but a much better and less distracting default behavior.
    * The widget/task menu items have been a mess for years now…
    * One of the biggest gripes is that I, in many situations simply cannot switch to fractional scaling for Gnome apps, or Gnome itself; while last time I checked, it was still experimental. Going to stop right there – for a lack of good fractional scaling support over multiple screens at this time for a desktop must leave most concerned.

    I used to do a USB live distribution of Gnome and check it out… I now don’t bother for that anymore and simply just check out the News Articles on major releases… And the focus of what they are changing leaves not interested.

    Regards

    Like

  20. Aside from the fact that hardly anybody still participates in the the Debian popularity contest: the two lines in your “gnome vs. others” graph” never sum up to 1.0, except in ~2006. Obviously that’s wrong.

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  21. This loss of trust is totally true. Not only from GNOME 3.x to 4.x, but continuously. This last release (45), for instance, has broken absolutely all extensions by design. What about in GNOME 42 gnome-terminal being replaced by gnome-console, which is clearly more limited and adds nothing useful? It’s so bad that most distros, including Fedora (known for being the most vanilla GNOME experience), are just ignoring this crap and keeping the old gnome-terminal. And what about gedit being replaced by a new crap that, again, instead of adding nothing, it actually removed features (https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-42-the-nonsense-continues-7d96c3287f7)? In GNOME 45 they removed eog (Eye Of GNOME, the image viewer) in favour of loupe, which is like 10 times bigger, takes waaaay more to compile and adds controversial benefits. The list could go on and on, and I haven’t started talking about performance and the huge collection of unacceptable bugs… GNOME achieved the impossible: it’s the more limited desktop environment at the same time it’s the most bloated.

    I tried to report some issues and it’s basically useless; they close most of them without giving a damn. And when they don’t they treat you as a child. The arrogance of these guys reached the point where they seriously thought about blocking applications from running from the file manager — luckily it hasn’t happened… yet. As Linus Torvalds once said about GNOME: ‘The whole we know best thing is a disease’.

    Why GNOME is, alone, the most popular desktop environment is a complex matter (I tried to explain why here: https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-linux-a-complete-disaster-feb27b13a5c2), but it should raise a red flag the fact that most distros that ship GNOME by default also install some basic extensions by default: because otherwise this crap would be unusable.

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  22. I used Gnome 1 and Gnome 2 on my Debian system. Liked it. When Debian 3 came in, I watched it 15 minutes and then gave apt-get purge gnome* command. Then I installed XFCE desktop and never looked back. I have tried gnome 3 and 4 desktops on virtual machines, but they just make me pull my hair off. They are COMPLETELY UNUSABLE compared to XFCE. Xfce is lightweight, does its job for me but still does not be on my way of productivity. I need a terminal? Just click on menu and open it. I need web browser? Blam- here it is. Virtual desktops? Yes, here they are, How many do you need? The Gnome 3/4 desktop has VERY STEEP learning curve. Yes it works if you pay bills once a month using your web browser for banking. But when you are doing some serious on your machine, the desktop comes on your way. I think the windowing system should help you in working- not prevent it. Gnome desktop is a thing that NEVER comes again on my machine. EVER.

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  23. Spot on. I ran across this today when I got to wondering if gnome had gotten any better, and it’s pretty clear it hasn’t. I got into Linux in part because with gnome it was intuitive enough (as a long-time Windows user) to be a good alternative. I struggled through hardware issues, bugs, and weird ways of doing things, but it was because I knew things were improving and it was interesting to be on the cutting edge.
    After gnome 3, and seeing the response of the devs to criticism, I tried some other UIs, but none of them really rose to the level of actual usability. I had to do all the same fighting with the computer to get things to work, but even when it was working it simply didn’t work as well. I ended up going back to Windows, and haven’t used linux since.
    I sincerely think that linux was building momentum with gnome, and could have become a significant alternative to Windows. The gnome devs threw that all away out of hubris.

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  24. It would be great fun if we had powerful portable touch screen devices we could install Gnome touch on and if people embraced the vision of carrying your computer around and attach it to screen keyboard and a mouse when ever they needed to get some work done to such an extent that hardware manufacturers just had to serve this need.

    So far purism is the only hardware company that embraces the vision Gnome touch serves and there are problems but I do want them to succeed and if they do the bet Gnome 3 made will be an important contributor to that success. Once this kind of product becomes available in my price bracket I will become a Gnome touch user and I will celebrate not having the pain and suffering the user interface of Android devices inflicts on me. I need to exports my SMS messages from a dying phone and although the capability is advertised as being there nothing I try works and it is such a time sink, the usability failure of Android devices are stark.

    I am not a computer programmer and not an “elite” gnu+linux user and most of the hardware we use in the household do not have sufficient graphics and cpu strength that running what to me is some sort of touch optimised web browser with lots of animation as the GUI an impossibility. The modern hardware I own needs use multiple screens and have to presents its capability directly with one click as I do not have the time for anything else and my acing hands would not comply if I did have the time.

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  26. Something I don’t get is that the supposedly Gnome 2 forks are nothing like Gnome 2. When I first heard Mate was a Gnome fork I was happy, to finally realized it was not Gnome 2. It wasn’t as good looking.
    So Gnome failed with Gnome 3, but the Gnome 2 forks has a responsibility too. They failed too. They couldn’t just deliver Gnome 2 as it was they changed it and made it ugly.

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  27. That’s a balkanization problem GNOME devs caused. All the forks of GNOME don’t have enough developers, but for that matter neither does GNOME. The only way to solve this is to start a new desktop environment project from scratch, but with good practices. I don’t think anybody is going to do that any time soon.

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  28. This is not related to the article but as a hobbyist developer who recently move definitely to Linux, I would be interesting to know what tools you use to develop with GTK in C. What is your working environment ? Do you use an IDE, a text editor, which one ? Do you use separate or integrated app for debugging, testing, etc.. ?

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  29. I’m probably going to upload a video to YouTube showing how I would start a simple GTK+ program. But in short: I use Xfce, vim, and make. For debugging I simply use printf, and rarely gdb. For writing tests I use sharness, which I maintain, but I would like to write something new.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. The video, that would be great !

    I just started to learn how to use NeoVim. And I’m learning Make too, and Bash.

    On Windows I was using Visual Studio, but on Linux this not how things are done. Their are no good IDEs.

    I tried them all but didn’t like any of them. So I said to myself, fuck it ! Let’s do things in the Linux’s way !

    Thanks for your reply.

    Like

  31. Banned for advocating democracy on bugzilla? Pretty slick. You know you’re onto something when authority responds with question-begging, whining, malingering, gaslighting and finally censorship/force, typically in that order. I disagree with one of your statements though, “It seems pretty clear GNOME developers do not understand what the purpose of GNOME even is–or the purpose of all software for that matter: to be useful to the users.” Sure they understand, or at least I can only presume that they do. Everyone who uses software understands that software must be useful. Ergo they do not want GNOME to be too useful. Feel free to shoot me an email or reply to my comment here if you like. -Jackson

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